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I Ching vs IFA

topic posted Fri, November 13, 2009 - 1:12 PM by  Unsubscribed
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Alafia, Since the I Ching is a lot less comprehensive than IFA. How is it possible to truly manifest the I Ching if it is only based on 64 pairs of 8 Trigrams, when IFA is based on the FULL 256 pairs of 16 Trigrams?

Since the I Ching only uses 8 trigrams, the I Ching is based on only half of the 16 Odu Tetragrams.

It is indeed part of the Ifa tradition that Ifa was brought to China, but in a more limited form. This is sometimes attributed to a warrior path of Obatalá, Obatalá Ayaguna. This path of Obatalá is the Ifa diviner for the other paths of Obatalá as well (when Orunmila does not do it directly). ...".
Which half of the 17 Odu Tetragrams did the I Ching use?

My best guess is that, since Ofun is a very important Odu and since Ose is paired with Ofun, the I Ching did not use the first 8 of the traditional Yoruba 16 Tetragrams, but that the first 6 and the last two (Ose and Ofun) were used.

0 Heaven Ogbe - light - birth of Orunmila (wisdom)
7 Earth Oyeku - dark - Oludumare's Earthly creations

1 Lake Iwori - ask diviner for advice
6 Mountain Edi - watch out for obstacles

4 Wind Irosun - crouch and plan action
3 Thunder Owonrin - weather storms

2 Fire Ose - truth protects good and destroys evil
5 Water Ofun - Oludumare creates Earth, the 16 Odu,
the Orishas, and humans

The number before each Odu is the binary number corresponding to the I Ching Trigram, which is the same as the binary number of the corresponding Odu (mod 8). The number is followed by the I Ching name of each Trigram.

The 4 pairs Odu/Trigrams is analogous to the Later Heaven Lo Shu I Ching arrangement, thus indicating that the traditional Yoruba order of the Tetragrams of FA shown above is similar to the Later Heaven Lo Shu I Ching arrangement, while the binary number order of the Tetragrams of FA shown above corresponds to the Earlier Heaven Ho Tu I Ching arrangement by Fu Xi .

As in the I Ching, many other arrangements of the IFA Tetragrams exist, as do many arrangements of the 16x16 = 256 pairs of IFA Tetragrams.

The following diagram, in which the letters H E L M Wi T F Wa correspond to the I Ching Trigrams, shows how the I Ching fits inside IFA, using the I Ching ordering of the 16 Tetragrams of IFA.

________________________________________________________________ | H | E | L | M | Wi| T | F | Wa| | | | | | | | | | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10| 11| 12| 13| 14| 15| 16| _________|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 1 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Ogbe |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 2 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Oyeku |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 3 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Iwori |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 4 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Edi |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 5 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Irosun |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 6 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Owonrin |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 7 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Ose |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 8 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Ofun |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 9 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Obara |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 10 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Okanran |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 11 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Ogunda |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 12 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Osa |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 13 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Ika |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 14 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Oturopon|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 15 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Otura |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___| | 16 | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | * | |Irete |___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|



It seems to me as though Vedic divination and Tai Hsuan Ching are based on the Triality aspect of the 256-dimensional Cl(8) Clifford algebra of IFA, while I Ching is based on the 64-dimensional Cl(6) Clifford subalgebra of the Cl(8) of IFA.
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  • Unsu...
     
    The pronunciation IFA was probably introduced into Mandarin after 1000 AD, during a Sung dynasty. Prior to that time, the pronunciation of the character began with P- instead of F-. For example, the Tang dynasty Mandarin pronunciation was PIUAP, which is similar to its pronunciation in Southern Chinese languages such as Cantonese. It is possible that the similarity of the Chinese pronunciation IFA and the AfricanI IFA is a result of African influence on China through contact by Chinese ocean voyages around 1000 AD. It is also possible that the Chinese pronunciation IFA has nothing to do with Africa, and is due to some other influence (contact with Mongols or other groups, or something completely different) that occurred around 1000 AD.

    How do we know today about the various pronunciations in past centuries of the same written character? Since about 601 AD, Chinese linguistic texts used rhyming tables, adapted from Indian linguistic rhyming tables. Prior to that, the rhyming structure of the Book of Poetry (6th Century BC - roughly the time of Confucius) gives some information.

    In Asia, after the end of the Global Early Civilization,
    the I Ching part of IFA came to China about 5,300 years ago.
    • Obataiye, i'm sorry to say that i don't much know wtf you're talking about. It sure sounds interesting though, and i'd like to know more about it. Can you offer a little background material on this for dummies?
  • Very Interesting...
    I'm not too clear on how to read the table. Which odu or omo odu, for example, would #54 (thunder over lake) of the I-ching connect with? Oworin-Iwori? Excuse me I'm thinking aloud...
    So if I got 55 ->54
    Oworin-Ose changing to Oworin-Iwori?
    It sounds like I'm going from a great place to some issues with Oshun (the marrying maiden?)
    I'm no expert, but the Odu of Lucumi speaks of issues with Oshun in Oworin-Iwori...
    Sounds like I better get a hold of Baba...get a reading ("ask the diviner")
    hmmm.
    Thanks for the interesting post. Requires some serious contemplation.
    This isn't Obataiye from Naropa is it?
    Alafia!

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